Did English ever have a formal version of "you"?

Yes it did, and the formal version was (drumroll, please....) you. In Early Modern English, thou was the singular and you was the plural. EnglishLanguage&UsageStackExchangeisaquestionandanswersiteforlinguists,etymologists,andseriousEnglishlanguageenthusiasts.Itonlytakesaminutetosignup. Signuptojointhiscommunity Anybodycanaskaquestion Anybodycananswer Thebestanswersarevotedupandrisetothetop Home Public Questions Tags Users Unanswered Teams StackOverflowforTeams –Collaborateandshareknowledgewithaprivategroup. CreateafreeTeam WhatisTeams? Teams CreatefreeTeam Teams Q&Aforwork Connectandshareknowledgewithinasinglelocationthatisstructuredandeasytosearch. Learnmore DidEnglisheverhaveaformalversionof"you"? AskQuestion Asked 10years,11monthsago Active 2yearsago Viewed 144ktimes 427 123 Fromthetopofmyhead,Danish"De"(practicallyneverused),German"Sie",Chinese"您",French"vous",Spanish"usted"areaformalwayofaddressingsomeone,especiallyifoneisn'tfamiliarwiththeaddressee.DidEnglisheverhavethis?ItsoundsasthoughProto-Indo-Europeanmighthavehadthis(basedonmy4examples),butperhapssomeonecanenlightenme? etymologypronounsformalitypersonal-pronounsthou-thee-thy Share Improvethisquestion Follow editedOct22'16at18:23 tchrist♦ 126k4848goldbadges348348silverbadges540540bronzebadges askedJan24'11at17:11 CarlosCarlos 5,33955goldbadges1919silverbadges2424bronzebadges 25 7 InNorwegian"De"ispolitesecondpersonsingular(notreallyusedmuchanymore,weusetheinformal"du"usually),while"de"isthirdpersonplural.IthoughthepoliteformwerecapitalizedinDanishtoo? – SteinG.Strindhaug Mar22'11at10:25 6 ThouisstillusedinsomenorthernEnglishdialect,notablyLancashire:english.stackexchange.com/questions/25288/… – Hugo Jul17'11at9:39 8 Whatdrivesmenutsarethepeoplewhothinkit's"yourself". – JoelBrown Jan7'12at18:58 3 "De"iscapitalizedinDanish,andcertainlyusefulwhenaskingelderlypeoplefordirections. – ThomasAhle Jun22'12at0:39 17 Noone'syetmentionedthatyoucanobservetheyou-thoudistinctioninactionifyouconsidersocialrankasyou'rereadingShakespeare. – Merk Oct19'12at8:34  |  Show20morecomments 6Answers 6 Active Oldest Votes 582 +50 Yesitdid,andtheformalversionwas(drumroll,please....)you. InEarlyModernEnglish,thouwasthesingularandyouwastheplural.Pluralyoucametobeusedasapoliteformofaddress(similartotheFrenchvous,whichisalsousedfortheplural),butovertimethispoliteformbecamemoreandmorecommon,eventuallydisplacingthesingularthoualtogether. ThisexplainsapeculiarityoftraditionalQuakerspeech,whichoneoftenhearsinfilmssetintheearlyAmericas.TheQuakersopposedmakinganydistinctionsofrank,sotheyinsistedonaddressingeveryoneasthou,notasyou.Theironyisthattodayweperceivethoutobearchaicandformal,whiletheoriginalintentistobemoreinformal. Update:wedon'tknowiftherewasanypolitenessdistinctioninPIE.Inanycase,thedistinctionsthatexistinthemodernEuropeanlanguagesarenotinheritedfromPIE,sincetheoldestrecordedIElanguages(Latin,Greek,Sanskrit)didnothaveseparatepolitepronouns.ThecurrentEuropeansystemapparentlybeganwiththelateRomanEmperorsandbecamewidespreadintheMiddleAges. Non-IElanguagesoftenhavemorethantwolevelsofdistinctness.InThaiandJapanese(theonlytwolanguagesaboutwhichIcanspeakwithconfidence),thereareavarietyofdifferentpronounsthatcanbeuseddependingontheexactnatureofthesocialrelationsbetweentheinterlocutors,andthesystemoftenextendsnotjusttothe2ndpersonpronounbuttothe1stand3rdpersonpronounsaswell. Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedJan24'11at17:28 answeredJan24'11at17:17 JSBձոգչJSBձոգչ 53.4k1414goldbadges153153silverbadges207207bronzebadges 31 25 Hindi(orUrdu)alsohasthreelevelsofpoliteness,asdo(accordingtotheWikipediaarticleonthis,whichiscalledtheT–Vdistinction)Dutch,Czech,Bengali,Turkish,Basque,anddialectsofCatalan. – ShreevatsaR Jan24'11at18:15 11 Thereisahypothesisthaty'allisnowemergingasaformalversionofyouincertaindialects.Seehere:"ThomasNunnally(1994)hasofferedasecondhypothesisfortheemergenceofyallasasingular.Hesuggeststhatitmaywellbeexpandingtofilltheroleofapolitesingular,justasyoudidseveralcenturiesago.Hepointsoutthatmanyofthecitationsofyallsingularshowtheformoccurringattheedgesofdiscourse—ingreetings,partings,andsoforth." – RegDwigнt ♦ Jan26'11at10:49 19 "Thou"isstillsometimesusedasthesingular/informalformofyouinsomepartsofnorthernEngland,notablyinYorkshire."Thou"and"thy"arepronounced"tha"andthecorresponding-rtand-stverbendingsarenotused.Suchuseisarchaic(evencomical)elsewhereinEngland. – WillHarris Jan26'11at22:06 4 @RegDwight:Y'allasasingularhasbeenaroundforalongtime.DanSimmonswroteahorrornovelSummerofNightaboutabunchofchildrengrowingupinSouthernIllinoisin1960,andinitthere'sagirlfromthewrongsideofthetrackswhosometimesusesy'allasasingular.Atfirst,Ithoughttheauthordidn'tknowwhathewastalkingabout.ButIdidsomeresearch,anddiscoveredthatindeedy'allwasusedasasingularbypeopleinthelowersocioeconomicclassesinthatregion(whereDanSimmonsgrewupinthe50sand60s). – PeterShor May15'11at12:29 3 ThamarEilamGindin,ascholarofancientPersian,saysthatsimilarlyinPersian"you"usedtobethepoliteformfor"thou"(likeVyinRussianandVousinFrench,it'sthepluralform).SoarethepoliteformsinPersian:šomāisbothpolite2ndpersonsingularornormal2ndpersonplural,asopposedtofamiliar"to".išānisnowusedonlyaspolite3rdpersonsingular,asopposedto"impolite"ū,butoriginallyitmeant"they"(human).Nowadays3rdpl.usestheoriginallyinanimate3rdpl.ānhāforbothhuman,animalandinanimate. – Itamar Nov30'11at9:43  |  Show26morecomments 120 Yes.AsfarasIknow,youactuallyistheformal,originallypluralversion(ye/you/your)andthouwastheinformalversion(thou/thee/thy/thine).Overtime,thoubecameimpolitelyinformalandisnownolongerused,thoughinterestinglyenoughnowadaysitmightevenbeperceivedasmoreformalthanyoubecauseit'sarchaicandsurvivesalmostexclusivelyinliturgicallanguage. Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedJan24'11at17:21 answeredJan24'11at17:16 JonPurdyJonPurdy 31.4k99goldbadges9999silverbadges144144bronzebadges 7 12 InterestingtonotewetypicallyaddressGodinthefamiliarform,nottheformal. – moioci May11'11at22:31 5 @moioci:AsfarasIknow,thesameistrueinFrench,Romanian,Russian,Polish,andHindi,allofwhichhaveT–Vdistinctions. – JonPurdy May12'11at2:31 14 FrommyBible-studyin'childhood,IrecallRomans8:15(KingJamesVersion):Foryehavenotreceivedthespiritofbondageagaintofear;butyehavereceivedtheSpiritofadoption,wherebywecry,Abba,Father.Yearslater,whenIvisitedIsrael,Iwasastonishedtohearthat"Abba"istheequivalentof"Daddy"inmodernHebrew.ItputtheNewTestamentintoawholenewcontextforme... – MT_Head May15'11at17:01 12 ThefactthatAbbameansDaddyinmodernHebrewdoesn'tmeanthatitalwaysmeantthisintheHebrewofNewTestamenttimes.See,forinstance:AbbaIsn'tDaddy-TheTraditionalAramaicFather'sDayDiscussion – Kyralessa Sep25'12at16:37 2 @JonPurdyAndalsoinSpanish. – AndrewLazarus Dec24'12at7:04  |  Show2morecomments 57 ItseemsMiddleEnglishdevelopedthedistinctionbetweenformal(you)andinformal(thou)versions:thisdistinctiondidnotexistinOldEnglish.Theformalpronounyouwasoriginallyapluralformofthou;itcanbeseeninmanylanguagesthatapluralformisseenasmorepolite,whichisprobablyrelatedtotheMajesticPlural("we,Kingblahblah,grant...").GermanSiecomesfromplural3rdpersonsie;FrenchvouscomesfrompluralLatin2ndpersonvos/vester. Thereforecurrentformalpronounsseemtoberelativelymodern,convergentdevelopments.IhaveneverheardofformalpronounsinPIE.InclassicalLatinandGreek,norealformalpronounswereinuseeither;inJapanese,ontheotherhand,therearesaidtobemorecomplexformsofformalpronounsandotherwords. Share Improvethisanswer Follow answeredJan24'11at17:31 Cerberus_Reinstate_MonicaCerberus_Reinstate_Monica 59.9k44goldbadges144144silverbadges228228bronzebadges 4 1 @Noldorin:Thanks!Indeeditwas.Icouldseehisfirstversiononly;I'dhavecancelledmineifIhadseenhisedit. – Cerberus_Reinstate_Monica Jan24'11at17:41 1 Yeah,that'swhatIgathered.Also,IfinditveryinterestinghowtheTVdistinctiononlyappearedintheMiddleAges,inbothRomanceandGermaniclanguages,butdoesnotexistinanyearlyIElanguages,asyousay.ItseemstohaveallstemmedfromtheLateRomanEmpire,butthatdoesn'teasilyexplainwhynon-Romancelanguageshavethedistinction. – Noldorin Jan24'11at17:46 1 @Noldorin:True.WhiletheGermaniclanguagesmayhaveemulatedtheRomancelanguages,IthinktheAsianlanguagesmusthavedevelopedtheirversionsindependently. – Cerberus_Reinstate_Monica Jan24'11at18:09 1 Absolutely.ItseemshighlylikelythattheGermaniclanguageswereinfluencedbyRome,butthat'sit.TheEastAsianlanguagesaretotallyunrelatedofcourse,and(correctmeifI'mbeforeitappearedinEurope-oratleastbeforetherewassignificantcontactbetweenthem. – Noldorin Jan24'11at21:55 Addacomment  |  51 Actually,somewhatcontrarytothefineanswerselectedabove,youwasnotoriginallytheformthatpairedwiththefamiliarsingularthee.Rather,thenominative(andvocative)formwasye.Thenow-commonyouwasoriginallyusedinobjectiveformsalone,soaccusativeordative. Forexample,Wordsworthdrawsthenominative–dativedistinctionwhenhewritesinLyricalBalladsvii:“Yetyeareseven!—Iprayyoutell,SweetMaid,howthismaybe.”AvocativeexamplebyShakespearecanbefoundinRichardIIIII.ii.84:“Lookenottotheground,YefauoritesofaKing.” TheOEDexplainsof‘ye’how: IntheearliestperiodsofEnglishyewasrestrictedtothenominativeplural.Inthe13thcent.itcametobeusedasanominativesingular=‘thou’,firstasarespectfulformaddressedtoasuperior.Thisusesurvivesinmoderndialects,especially(intheformee)ininterrog.andimperativeformulæ(e.g.Dee=‘doye’),butalsoinobjectiveuses=‘thee’(e.g.Oitellee).Whenyouhadusurpedtheplaceofyeasanominative,yecametobeused(inthe15thcent.),viceversa,asanobjectivesingularandplural(=‘thee’and‘you’). Now(inalluses)onlydial.,arch.,orpoet.;inordinaryusereplacedbyyoupron. IllustrationofForms: a.OEge,gie,gee,MEȝie,(gie,ge),ME(ME–17Sc.printedze)ȝe,MEȝee,north.yhe,ME–15north.ȝhe,ME–16yee(MEjȝe,hye,MEiȝe,iye,(i)he,16,18dial.yea),ME–ye. b.Incombination,procliticallyorenclitically,withotherwords,as:†ȝet=yeit,yare=yeare,y’have;d’ee,dee=doye,hark’ee,harkee.Nowdial. 1a.Thepronounused(asthepluralof2ndsingularthoupron.)inaddressinganumberofpersons(or,rhetorically,ofthings),inthenominative(orvocative). †2b.Inappositiontoself(yeself,yeselven=yourselves):seeselfpron.2.Obs. 1c.Inappositiontoandprecedingan.(oradj.usedabsol.)inthevocative. 2a.Usedinsteadofthouinaddressingasingleperson(originallyasamarkofrespectordeference,latergenerally:cf.thoun.,youpron.). 2b.Inappositiontoandprecedingan.inthevocative. 3a.Usedasobjective(accusativeordative)insteadofyou(inpluralorsingularsense). †3b.Usedredundantly(‘ethicaldative’).Obs. Incontrast,here’sitsnoteaboutyou: Originallytheaccusativeanddativepluralofthesecondpersonalpronoun:seethoun.forthedeclensionofthe2ndpersonpronouninOldEnglishandMiddleEnglish.Between1300and1400itbegantobeusedalsoforthenominativeyepronwhichithadreplacedingeneralusebyabout1600.Duringthe14thcenturyitalsoappearsasasubstituteforthesingularobj.theen.andnominativethoun.,beingoriginallyusedintokenofrespectinaddressingasuperior,butlateralsotoanequal,andultimatelygenerally:comparethoupron.1.Thusyouisnowthegeneralpronounofthesecondperson,nominativeorobjective,singularorplural. Thehistoricalformsgivenforyouare: Forms:OE–MEeow,(OEieow,iowMEȝeau,heou,heow,how,ȝehw)MEeou,ȝeu,ȝew,MEou,hou,ȝu,MEiou,æu,ew,heu,eo,oeu,howe,ȝeow,ȝuw,ov,MEow,owe,ȝiu,MEeu,yu,(15Sc.)ȝou,MEiow,ȝue,ȝuu,ȝouȝ,yuu,youu,yhow,MEȝowe,ȝhow,ȝo,(15–16Sc.)ȝow,ME–16yow,MEȝoue,ȝewe,ȝhu,yowe,yoow,yw,yo,yewe,Sc.yhu,yhw,ME–15youe,15iow,16yew,ME–you,(18dial.andvulgaryah,yer,alsoyezpron.). Whereasthehistoricalformsgivenforthouare: OE–MEðu,OE–MEþu,(MEtu,tou,-te),ME(þe,þeou),ðhu,MEþou,ME–15thu,(MEþouȝ),MEþow,(-tow),ME–15thow,ME,15(18dial.)th-,th’,(MEthowe),ME–thou.(Mod.dial.thau,thaw,thah,tha;theau,theow,thoo,thu;tau,taw,ta,tay;teau,teaw,teu,too,tou,tow;doo,dou,du,etc.:seeEng.Dial.Dict.) There’salotmorethanthatthereifyoucheckouttheOEDentriesforye,thou,andyou. Postscript ItlookslikeGeorgiadoesn’tlikeȝ(U+021DLATINSMALLLETTERYOGH)verymuch. Hm,Idon’timaginethere’sanywaytogetthefont’ssmallcapitals?Thatwouldcertainlybeuseful. Share Improvethisanswer Follow answeredJan7'12at23:41 tchrist♦tchrist 126k4848goldbadges348348silverbadges540540bronzebadges Addacomment  |  26 +50 WhathappenedinEnglishprettymuchhappenedinGerman,andotherEuropeanlanguages. BothGermanandEnglishstartedoffaround1500orso, withsingularandpluralsecondpersonpronouns: Englishþu/yeandGermandu/ihr Thenthenobilitystartedtorequiremorepoliteness,and asisalwaysthecase,theunnobilityfoundwaystocomply. Indoingso,theyfollowedtwobasicprinciplesofsociolinguistics, viz: Thirdpersonismoreformal(andthereforemorepolite)thansecondperson. ➤Formapoliteversionofsecond-personpronounsfromthird-personforms --andthemoreelaborate,thebetter (EnglishYourLadyship~HerLadyship,GermanpoliteEr/Sieist--3sg,cfTieck,ca1800) Pluralismoreformal(ditto)thansingular. ➤Formapoliteversionoffirst-andsecond-personpronounsfrompluralforms (Englishpoliteyouinsingular,"royalWe",GermanpoliteSiesind--3pl) Similarremarkscanbemade,mutatismutandis,forSpanishtu/ustedandFrenchtu/vous Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedDec19'19at15:06 answeredFeb14'14at0:51 JohnLawlerJohnLawler 97.8k1010goldbadges155155silverbadges417417bronzebadges 1 3 InSpanishwouldbetu/vos(notethatinSouthSpainandLatamvosisnowsingularandustedesplurar)Andustedcomesfromvuestramerced – Alberto Dec19'14at16:34 Addacomment  |  17 JusttoclarifysinceIseeitalludedtobutnotclearlysaid,youwas,originally,theobjectiveplural. Assaid,originally,therewasno"polite"form.Thou(thu,þu)wasthesingularsubjective/nominativeandyewaspluralsubjective/nominative.AftertheNorman-FrenchTakeover,somebegantotrytografttheT-VdistinctionontotheEnglishpronouns.Thisledtoalotofconfusionandresentment.Afteritwasallsaidanddone,boththouandyeweredroppedinfavorofyouservingasboththesing.andpl.aswellassubj.andobj.forms. Genesis19:8KJVisagoodbyspeltoseethesubj./obj.forms(Lotspeakingtoacrowd): Beholdnow,Ihavetwodaughterswhichhavenotknownman;letme,I prayyou(objpl),bringthemoutuntoyou(objpl),anddoye (subjpl)tothemasisgoodinyour(posspl)eyes:onlyuntothese mendonothing;forthereforecametheyundertheshadowofmyroof. Personally,I'mverygladthatthe"polite"formdidn'ttakeholdinEnglish.Ifindittobeapainwhenspeakingothertongues.Manyhaveinformallysolvedthepluralproblemwithy'alloryouseorevenyouguys. Share Improvethisanswer Follow editedNov15'12at14:01 Zairja 6,74066goldbadges3636silverbadges7878bronzebadges answeredJan7'12at18:29 AnWulfAnWulf 1,33399silverbadges1010bronzebadges 3 1 Ifitnevertookhold,"Ithouthee,thoutraitor!"makesnosense. – JonHanna Feb8'13at1:29 2 @JonHanna-ThepoliteformnotonlytookholdinEnglish:iteffectivelymadethesingularformsobsolete,tothepointthatmostEnglishnativesdonotevenknowthisistheoriginalformalpronoun. – PabloStraub Jan8'17at17:15 1 @PabloStraubyes,leadingtohisincorrectanswer,thoughuseofthouforfamiliaraddresswithT-VdistinctionwasstillfoundinsomepartsoftheAnglospherewellintothe20thcentury(c.f.theuseofthouinDHLawrence'snovels).EvenwhenthouhadbeenmostlyobsoleteinsouthEngland,peoplestillknewtheimplicationswell-enoughthatwhentheQuakerstriedtointroduceanegalitarianthouaspartoftheir"plainspeaking"itwouldsometimesresultintheirbeingbeatenupwiththeassailantclaimingtheywereprovokedbytherudenessofbeingaddressedwiththou. – JonHanna Jan8'17at20:53 Addacomment  |  Highlyactivequestion.Earn10reputation(notcountingtheassociationbonus)inordertoanswerthisquestion.Thereputationrequirementhelpsprotectthisquestionfromspamandnon-answeractivity. 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